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delete staff names


Once I have done my editing work in SSX, I export the XML, and import it into my finale barbershop template. The staff name Piano seems to be hardwired into the SSX document, and overwrites the Tenor/Lead staff name in my template.

I have tried erasing the name in SSX's Score Manager, but it reappears. I have also set the staff name not to show, but it exports with the document. Is there a way to eliminate it, short of going into the XML and editing it out, there?

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SS64 Pro v. 11.5.99, Mac Ventura 13.6.3, Finale 27.4.1
wawoodman at aol dot com
6/3/2017, 11:12 am Link to this post Send Email to mikey12045   Send PM to mikey12045 Blog
 
tlwebb Profile
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Re: delete staff names


Mikey,

I may be going out on limb, as I don't have Finale, and as I'm still using V10.3 Pro (I never saw the advantage to doing the update to SSX2 for the things I do, well at this point it's more like "used to do"; with the demise of the choir with which I used to work, I haven't been doing nearly as much as I once did) so I don't think I can even export XML as a file--at least I've never tried it.

All that said, I'm suspecting that in SSX your vocal system is a grand staff and the part names are PianoL and PianoR. Did you try creating Instrument Templates in SSX (Edit->Instument Templates...) and assigning those templates to the staves in the System Manager, or is that what you did when you say you tried to "erase it" in the System Manager.

As I said, I've never really done much with music XML, but I suspect the reason it transfers over despite attempts to get rid of it in SSX is that there is a "PartName" XML tag which is part of something like a "staff" object defining that staff. My theory is that if you use those names for the part in SSX at least the correct ones would be used. It's just a guess though.

You might check the XML file's structure to see. I have no idea what that may entail, but I'll bet an old fashioned hex editor is all it would take. For all I know, NotePad might work.

Again, it's just a thought. Let us know how you make out.


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mikey12045 Profile
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Re: delete staff names


Yes, the default in SSX is piano grand staff. I've found how to change the GS to a brace, but it appears that if I want no name, I have to go into the XML. There doesn't seem to be an option to add a "blank staff." Fortunately, it turns out that it's two simple deletions in the XML, right near the head of the file. And any text reader is fine. Delete the staff names, save the file, and you're good to go.

So, that seems to be the answer. Thanks for trying!

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SS64 Pro v. 11.5.99, Mac Ventura 13.6.3, Finale 27.4.1
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Re: delete staff names


Did you actually try successfully importing that edited XML file into your template? The thought that only occurred to me this morning that if Finale reads even an empty tag, it will still overwrite your template's tag (I'm only using that term not knowing what else to call it).

I also imagine that there would be a way in Finale to change that assignment, which may be the preferred solution given the role of the apparent source of the value within SSX, but I know nothing of Finale to even make a suggestion. It's an interesting mental exercise, and I've already learned that at least the MusicXML files are easily readable and editable! Thanks for that bit of knowledge.

EDIT: BTW, I wasn't going to mention this, but just for kicks I tried creating a couple of "empty name" instrument templates in SSX. Unexpectedly, a completely empty (ie null string) name is acceptable. I could also create a name using one or more of the old <blank> (dec255/hexFF) ASCII character--that character proved to be a god-send in some case during my working career. Not sure what the XML export or import might do about either of those, especially the null one, but that's what got me thinking about what Finale does with the "information" in the the tag.


Last edited by tlwebb, 6/4/2017, 7:15 am


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Re: delete staff names


Yes, the XML with the name deleted imported correctly. I thought about using a non-breaking space, but I was afraid that it would overwrite my existing names. Deleting the information seemed to be the best way.

I tried creating an unnamed staff, but I couldn't do it. How did you manage?

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Re: delete staff names


This has gotten interesting. I first did it this morning before getting ready to head off to church, so at that time I didn't thoroughly test everything. When I saw your reply, I was at first thinking of trying to record a video of the process: that's one of the most brilliant things this one guy on my DAW software forum does to illustrate tricky or complex operations. So I set about trying out scenarios to illustrate. In that process, I discovered at least a limitation to what I'd done.

Originally, I simply opened an existing, edited score; a simple single system piano piece I'd recently completed. Then in the Instrument Templates dialog (Edit->Instrument Templates...) I clicked "Add". It added a new line containing what are the default entries for a part named "Piano" [no L or R suffix], with the cursor in the Name field. I then merely hit the Delete key (wiping out the current "Piano" entry and then hit "Okay". I left the default "Pia" in the abbreviation field so in case it worked, I could tell different versions of "blank parts" apart from each other. Then I hit "Okay" again to close the dialog. Then I went into the System
Manager, designated SuperSystem the Controlling System, selected the "PianoL" Part Name, then scrolled down the list to the blank entry and selected it. Then I hit Apply (after making sure that "Part Names" was ticked and "ALL" was selected in the options frame). The part named changed in the resulting ENF display. Okay, so far so good. So then I saved the file (under a new name), closed it, and for good measure exited SSX.

Then I launched a new instance of SSX and opened the saved file. The blank name was still used for that part. I opened the "Instrument templates" dialog and the blank name was still there, so this looked like a victory. Now actually, this was the second approach--trying to get a truly "null string" name. I'd gone through the same process before that with the <blank> character (actually I used two of them, ie <blank><blank>--no space between)-that's why I left the abreviation as "Pia". I was starting to run short on time, and I'm a pretty composer and slower typist so I dashed off my last post on this basis.

After seeing your reply, I decided to try another twist I'd not considered earlier: making a new file with the "blank parts" (null string and <blank><blank>). I created a new "piano type" score, then opened the System Manager, designated the SuperSystem as controlling and scrolled down the list. Neither of the "blank names" were there. Obviously something was not as I'd expected. I surmise that the "blank name" parts were added to a copy of (or extension to) the Instrument Templates collection local to the specific file I'd created them in. Now that may have been because I did NOT tick the "Apply these settings in for all future files"[sic] option in the Instrument Templates dialog either time. Even the wording of that implies that the "blank" parts would also not appear in the list for previously created scores. So there is more examination required to qualify how useful this solution might be. But it does indicate that this can be done in the ENF at least for individual scores.

Oh, BTW: I completely agree with your doubts concerning the <blank> character based names: any non-null entry most likely would overwrite an existing name.
[EDIT] When you said deleting the name in the XML file worked, what did you delete? was there something like a line with a tag and a value for that tag, like
  [name]Piano[/name]
and you deleted just the "Piano" portion; or the entire line? It's entirely possible even a null name value would overwrite an existing Finale template name if the tag is present[/EDIT]

Not sure how much time I'll have to dig into this further, but I'll certainly try if I get some more time. I'm off to edit the homily I recorded at our parish this morning (I do this every Sunday for the Parish Communications Director to post on the parish website). If you pursue further investigations, I'd really appreciate any new or revised information, thoughts or ideas you'd care to share. Perhaps PMs might be a better medium, but then, answering here may also prove entertaining to the others of us who still check in somewhat regularly: it's been kinda quiet for a while :->>.

Last edited by tlwebb, 6/4/2017, 12:53 pm


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mikey12045 Profile
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Re: delete staff names


tlwebb,

Very strange. I tried recreating what I did (or, at least, what I remember doing) and it didn't work.

I am going to do some more research.

Thanks for working with me on this!

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SS64 Pro v. 11.5.99, Mac Ventura 13.6.3, Finale 27.4.1
wawoodman at aol dot com
6/5/2017, 9:59 am Link to this post Send Email to mikey12045   Send PM to mikey12045 Blog
 


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