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Refrains and multiple verses


Our choir music often has a refrain which is sung at the beginning, between verses, and at the end. The verses may be slightly different.

I put a Segno at the beginning of the refrain, and Fine at the end of the refrain. Then open bracket 1 at the beginning of the first verse (which is usually the same barline as the end of the refrain), end bracket at the end of the verse, with D.S. Then open bracket 2 (at same location as end of verse 1), then end bracket at the end of the second verse, with D.S. Continue same way thru all verses, with d.s.al fine at end of last verse.

Usually what happens is refrain, verse 1, refrain, verse 1 (again), refrain, verse 2, refrain, verse 3, etc - correctly until finished. So the problem is it repeats verse 1 between refrains, instead of continuing on to verse 2 at the correct time.

I have tried the same thing using D.C. instead of D.S. (because the refrain is at the beginning of the piece), but get the same results - verse 1 is done twice, with a refrain between.

I did make sure there is a double-bar (thin-thick) measure line at the end of the refrain. I don't know how else to indicate the end of the refrain. It's almost like Smartscore thinks verse 1 is part of the refrain until it gets to the end of verse 1. How to fix?
5/29/2018, 8:16 pm Link to this post Send Email to AZSteve   Send PM to AZSteve Blog
 
tlwebb Profile
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Re: Refrains and multiple verses


Steve,

Don't have a lot of time right now, but this is not an uncommon question. I'm still using the older SSX Pro (not SSX2), but I believe the process is basically the same. There have been several posts about this topic.

If I'm reading your question correctly, you're looking for the playback to sound correct, not trying to create a printed score for your singers that also sounds correct. The former can be done; the latter not so much.

Right now I'd suggest doing a forum search including "multiple endings, playback" in the search criteia. I know I've posted about this in the past, so you should come up with a few hits.

I'll be back later this morning and I'll check back in. If you don't find anything that helps, or you have continuing issues, post back and I'll try to follow up. There are also a few other very helpful folks who check in periodically that may respond as well.

Sorry about the "brush-off".


---
SSX Pro V10.3.3.; WinXP-SP3 (32-bit)
5/30/2018, 6:11 am Link to this post Send Email to tlwebb   Send PM to tlwebb
 
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Re: Refrains and multiple verses


tlwebb, I found your very thorough discussion, along with many others. Yours addresses multiple refrain endings before going to a verse. I have only one refrain, and then go to multiple verses, with refrain between each verse.

It appears I am doing everything you suggest that relates to my particular issue, but I still can't get it to playback correctly.

Unless I am missing something, neither yours nor any of the other discussions appear to add anything that I haven't already tried.
5/30/2018, 10:06 am Link to this post Send Email to AZSteve   Send PM to AZSteve Blog
 
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Re: Refrains and multiple verses


Steve,

I've sent you a PM about this.

When I was playing with my previous, now defunct choir, my usual use case was producing midi files of the part for the different voices as practice aids for our vocalists, many of whom did not read music. So this was a fairly common problem, often complicated by publishers' tendencies to "optimize" their scores by using multiple jumps and unusual structures to reduce the number of pages. In some extreme cases the only solution to a decent playback version was literally creating a start to finish score of refrain, verse, refrain, verse...., then rendering that with appropriate panning/ relative volumes for each voice. In the end that was often the best and most time efficient process.

But by the same token, I enjoyed the challenge of trying to figure out how to do different things with the software. It was a challenge.

So anyway, if there's no issue with licenses or whatever reply to the PM and we'll see what happens next.

---
SSX Pro V10.3.3.; WinXP-SP3 (32-bit)
5/30/2018, 9:05 pm Link to this post Send Email to tlwebb   Send PM to tlwebb
 
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Re: Refrains and multiple verses


As I've said on a number of occasions, SS isn't really designed for this. A true notation editor like Finale or Sibelius would be able to do that fairly easily. However, TL's workaround is perfectly acceptable, and one I have used in the past.

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SSX2 Pro v. 10.5.8, Mac 10.13.3, Finale 25
6/1/2018, 6:38 am Link to this post Send Email to mikey12045   Send PM to mikey12045 Blog
 
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Re: Refrains and multiple verses


I decided to start fresh. I deleted all section starts and endings (for the verses), and the D.C. and the D.C. al Fine at the end of the verses. Then saved file. When reopened, it played straight through the refrain (at the beginning) and all the verses, with no repeats or jumps.

Then I put in the section start and end indicators for the three verses. These were the default end indicators, which included repeat dots at the end of Verses 1 & 2, but not at the end of verse 3. No D.C. or D.C al Fine indicators at the end of the verses. It played through correctly with no repeat of verse 1 (the original issue), but stopped at the end of verse 3. Adding a D.C. al Fine at the end of verse 3 and a Fine at the end of the refrain resulted in the file playing correctly and completely as intended.

Moral of the story > The section starts and endings imported with the recognition of the original file were not complete or correct, so needed to be manually fixed. I'm guessing the manual fixes confused the program, causing it to repeat verse 1. Starting fresh, as described above, apparently removed the confusion, even though the final file looks the same as my original "fix".

Lesson learned after a dozen tries > if at first you don't succeed (with the fixes), start fresh, as described above.
6/1/2018, 11:02 am Link to this post Send Email to AZSteve   Send PM to AZSteve Blog
 
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Re: Refrains and multiple verses


We've all discovered there's a few things SSX just can't do. And others it can, but it takes a while to figure out how to make it happen.

Glad it all worked out this time.


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SSX Pro V10.3.3.; WinXP-SP3 (32-bit)
6/1/2018, 3:10 pm Link to this post Send Email to tlwebb   Send PM to tlwebb
 


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